Wednesday 9 October 2013

Elven Dwarf off!




Way back in May (its nuts to think it was that long ago!) I wrote an article about how the new High Elves lent themselves towards a very dwarfish attitude to war (though probably swapping out the black powder and warm ale for fletching and chilled dry white wine). I expected that it was the way that a lot of competitive lists would go especially given the state of the meta – and this has been true to a point. That book obviously also lends itself to combat builds, so you tend to see people choosing between the two, but the gunline is very much on the scene.



On a tangential point, in case I have not made it clear previously:
I rarely write lists I think people *should* take – other than urging the Wales ETC team to ManHammer up, the lists I post are either those I am/am thinking of taking or things of that can be done – often in extremis.
The brief post I put up yesterday was met with some outrage at the “AvoidanceHammer” of it all from several quarters.
There is something serious to state here. It is very rare that a list in itself dictates negative play. If you look at the work of the top ranked player in the UK this past year his Lizardmen lists used to look ultra avoidance. But if you spoke to him or watched him play, the way he won the games was engineering the decisive combats on his terms. There is a view along the hallowed halls of the interwebs that for a list to be “fun” for both opponents it must have 1-3 combat blocks and look to engage.
This is patently nonsense.
Firstly, this often amounts to a game of conkers and listhammer, where the best units (backed up by good play and support) beats the lesser units. Walking into a fight you are going to lose is universally accepted as a *bad thing* unless you are Audley Harrison, where getting paid too much money to get beaten up for 15 minutes is a career choice.
Army list design is but one aspect of the mentality of an army. I have seen countless combat armies just line the table and use whatever artillery they have access to (magical or physical) to try and force a small win (looking at you Brettonians and Daemons!). Having an army that can choose to not engage and minimise losses/go for small wins in a bad matchup whilst also capitalising on a good one/seizing opportunities is almost the very essence of a good list.
So, if you see an army where everything moves at 18”+ with asaf, hard hitting though fragile combat elements and magic that is clearly designed to weaken then pounce and you think “DenialHammer” its probably a sign of your outlook and assumptions. Hell, as covered previously, “-Star” lists are as aggressive as it often gets, but by their very nature they are also the epitome of denial.



But anyway… moving on.

Who would have thought that all this time all Legolas really wanted was a beard?

Interesting point on that meta – two books have been out since the last Chaos book, and nothing seems to have changed on the meta level of competitive tournament play at all. And I am not completely sure that Dark Elves are going to shift it too much – other than a lot of players may be bored of pushing WoC/DoC around and go back to their 7th edition love of emo elves.


The working meta assumptions for list writing have not changed in the middle half of this year… so here is a summary slightly adapted from the one in May:

Working Meta Assumptions:Low model count shock troop armies are currently very popular (as seen with WoC) and Monstrous Cavalry (and Beasts) remain the work horses of the most popular armies (WoC, DoC, Ogres, Empire, Tomb Kings). Vampires are making extensive use of double Terrorgheists, either supporting a hard hitting fast cavalry hammer, or a ponderous and safe infantry deathstar. Daemon Princes, Disc characters, Greater Daemons and the like remain popular. Against such things, mid to high strength attacks that ignore armour and cause multiple wounds without the risk of being hit back are obviously a Good Thing. Not all armies will have this. There will always be paper that beats a gunline rock (thank the gods!)

The consensus appears to be that Dark Elves generally do what their High Elf brethren (in the traditional, none-saaaf London sense of the word) do, but better. This is born of historical precedent and overt paranoia. One would hope one side would do some stuff better than others after all.  Is this true of that bizarrely popular past time of players all over the world – pretending to be a dwarf player? These players disgust dwarf players for not doing it right, and utterly baffle everyone else for wanting to do it in the first place. Examples are abundant – the most commonly seen being the “Green Dwarf” plague of tournament O&G armies, as well as notable numbers of Empire and HE armies.


In the classical music corner:

With this in mind, I put an example HE list together and it came out along the lines of:

Teclis 

Noble, BSB with Reaver Bow and Potion of Strength

15 archers: musician
15 archers: musician
15 archers: musician
5 Reavers
5 Reavers

5 shadow warriors
5 shadow warriors
5 shadow warriors

Lothern Skycutter with Bolt Thrower
Lothern Skycutter with Bolt Thrower
Lothern Skycutter with Bolt Thrower

Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower
Repeater Bolt Thrower
15 Sisters of Averlorn
Great Eagle
Great Eagle

Damn dull to play against I can tell you – in case you were having problems working that one out – but actually effective.


In the death metal corner:

So, how can the Dark Elves match up in the Dwarven stakes?

Supreme Sorceress: The Sacrificial Dagger; Talisman Of Endurance; Level 4 Wizard [Probably Heavens magic, though maybe Metal or Death]

Master: Ring Of Hotek; Heavy Armour; Repeater Crossbow; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Battle Standard Bearer – bodyguard for the sorceress, and making sure nothing panics off by being stabbed too much by a power dice hungry sorceress.

20 Darkshards: Musician; Standard Bearer; Standard Of Discipline – Power dice. Sure, spears are better, but add nothing else to the list, so lets stab people than shoot things whilst they wait.
20 Darkshards
10 Black Ark Corsairs: Repeater Hand Bows – quite simply, shooting chaff. Move up, get in the way, shoot things. Could of course use Dark Riders for this job (but fewer shots that way)
10 Black Ark Corsairs: Repeater Hand Bows

Reaver Bolt Thrower – Interestingly, I know HE players the world over have been crying about DE getting RBTs in their Special slot, but in this instance that is actually a massive drag, as ran out of Special points to play with. 4 RBTs provide a solid shooting platform that can really threaten high targets.
Reaver Bolt Thrower
Reaver Bolt Thrower
Reaver Bolt Thrower


Scourgerunner Chariot – they may be over-costed, but no one wants to get hit by a S7 bolt thrower. Think if you ignore the cost they could be made to work very effectively. 
Scourgerunner Chariot
Scourgerunner Chariot


5 Shades – these remain brilliant. In this list their primary job is forcing your opponent to deal with them, buying more time to shoot things.
5 Shades
5 Shades

5 Doomfire Warlocks – Fast cav for fleeing shenanigans is always good. Add in a nasty magic missile and, especially in this sort of list, two attempts to cast Soul Blight (or 3 if you end up going for the Death Sorceress) and things get nasty.
5 Doomfire Warlocks

150 shots before you factor in the bolt throwers, plus magic to help it out… this is pretty Dwarfish. Is it more so than the HE version? That’s a tough call – it’s the constant contrast between quality of shot and quantity of shot in this comparison. 



The results are in:

On balance I am going to award the dubious honour and prestigious prize for “Best Dwarf Army, 2013” to the Dark Elves. Due in part to the S7 bolt throwers on the Scourgerunners but also to the extra useful magic synergies.


On the plus side we are less likely to see this than the HE version, as Dark Elves are screaming for some screaming naked chicks and tentacle monsters……..
Be ashamed if your list looks anything like the one above.
Be very ashamed.



Until next time



Raf

3 comments:

  1. I'm sure that this is just an exercise in theory hammer but both of those armies disgust me.

    If you set out to make the game as boring as possible and to remove all possible enjoyment you couldn't have devised much better lists (and by your calling them 'dwarfs' that's the common slur is attached to them despite the fact that most dwarf armies will have well over 50% of their points in combat blocks), I know I know, it's how you use em).

    Interested to see if you'd now tweak the HE one to be a light council plus all that shooting after recent games?

    Anyway, please go back to more enjoyable pastures please!

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    Replies
    1. Oh, I abhor these lists. They have an incredible ability of making me angry and sleepy all at the same time.
      Unfortunately some people (be it half the O&G armies, or a rising number of HE players) go down this general route.
      I find the extremes a book can do a fascinating theoryhammer exercise. I don’t think I have ever written up a list I would suggest someone takes – I like to look at the extremes no one will take. Most lists tend to be in the amorphous middle, even if they lean a certain direction. Also, the DE book seems to have far too much stuff to have fun with to mess around boring gunlines (never mind the financial cost). Also, these lists are response to the WoC meta – which one hopes will eventually go away.

      On the Dwarf thing – they are my first Warhammer love, fostered on a diet of Tolkien and Gotrek (two opposite ends of the literary spectrum it has to be said). Perception is a large part of reality, and the likes of ETC dwarf corner armies do not give the impression of a combat army – when yes, most points are spent on combat options, but that to a point is because they are not allowed to spend 1800 points on warmachines… True that’s not the only way to play – I like the ambushing army myself. Though, to be honest, it was purely a reference to my HE post months ago.
      Hope that serves as an adequate apology – I know dwarf players get angry and don’t forgive 

      Delete
  2. Ha! I thoroughly consider myself a former dwarf player, I'm on record elsewhere saying I'll never play them again, outside a team event where I'm specifically asked to, until they get a new book which actually gives them some sensible options in terms of build that makes them enjoyable to play with & against. So for my part no apology is required.

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